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Cleanup Ubuntu Wiki
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`<wxl> if anyone wants to make a project out of digging through the old wiki to see if there's anything useful and transferring it over to phabricator, that would be great
<wxl> i.e. things related to development, contribution, etc. stuff related to support can just rot since it's all lxde
<wxl> if someone wants to make a task for it, that would be great, better yet if someone wants to take on the task, might be a nice little project to just pick at day by day`

(Floated at standup 17-Dec-2020

I don't see this as an urgent task, and may consist of multiple stages.

1. As Walter said, grab and possibly re-host pages with worthwhile Lubuntu project detail on our current site.

At a minimum these pages need to be listed, the decision on what to do can be made once the list is complete.

2. A few re-directs have been done with various delays

see https://notes.lubuntu.me/xGUhgY-9Tdip0AzRUT6wGQ for some detail mainly on starting the task following a prior startup, I recorded less detail in that log as I progressed especially for unmaintained/deprecated only pages.

(notes.lubuntu.me link can also be viewed with https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSg6S8yAuNGwGPldCaayOnATk7Q-4IM7fDLumCqUy_klehOIgT6y25wRvQHqMHnUINIrIdPFDscJUmh/pub in it's original form)

Few pages re-direct however, most have a unmaintained and deprecated red warning only.. Come April 2021, changes will need to be done to these which could be

  • leave page on wiki.ubuntu.com but change it from a Lubuntu page, to a LXDE page (if this is utilized, it can be done anytime starting now)
  • have page redirect automatically to lubuntu.me (see notes link for clues); Walter likes instant redirect, I personally like a delay.

Event Timeline

wxl triaged this task as Low priority.Dec 17 2020, 10:11 PM
wxl added a subscriber: wxl.

Yeah, basically anything that relates to development, contributing, and the like should go into our wiki here and everything else should relate to LXDE, which we won't be supporting post April 2021. Rather than deleting it, converting it into an LXDE rather than a Lubuntu wiki, will allow LXDE users (that we no longer support) to still see the info. Looks good. Thanks @guiverc!

@wxl, FYI: the rename of wiki pages (lubuntu to lxde) looks easy.. with it offering to rename subpages too..

The wiki task maybe pretty easy, with much of the time just verifying it did what I think it will do.

Legacy users who stick with LXDE/Lubuntu will appreciate I bet the pages still being there (ie. just renamed).

General (wiki) looking & some minor editing.. Comments & discoveries so far

  • no team member is notified of edits; some links only go to lyz, some to lyz, unit193 or people I don't recognize.. of little importance maybe esp. into future, but it still feels strange (mentioned months ago on IRC)

Links to Lubuntu founding (@amjjawad) I'd like preserved (Lubuntu History), originally points to dead thread

I see reference to people involved with the project in the past (that will be lost), maybe we could have a wiki page with a list of Lubuntu members (ie. past & present; those who've shown a significant & sustained..)
(these notes will be edited & added to at times.. or replaced with a link when a better place exists for them)

@guiverc I like this idea of having a list of contributors. Feel free to start a page on the wiki here.

(belated) ACK on wiki page list of contributors.
I've not got much further with this, but I'll provide a summary.

I didn't start a "pages need to be listed" as I never found anything of value (outside of contributors already mentioned)

  • leave page[s] on wiki.ubuntu.com but change it from a Lubuntu page, to a LXDE page (if this is utilized, it can be done anytime starting now)

which I mentioned in initial test. My guess is I've (quickly) browsed about 1/3rd of pages that would be caught (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/WikiMap), and other than the listed contributors, I've not seen anything that would be lost by a rename which is catered for in my initial looking (which was a couple of months ago now).

  • (the above was written some time ago, but never pasted)

I just noticed all our pages on "Get involved" point to our links page..

I wanted something more (minutes ago) for a support query, and didn't find what I was looking for. The https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/GettingInvolved only redirects to lubuntu.me (meaning I didn't find one then), and the manual says "to get in touch with us" and links to https://lubuntu.me/links/

so I'll now add the following needs to be updated & incorporated on our infrastructure (wiki page makes sense probably; https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/ which means I have full access to do it too)
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/GettingInvolved

Contributors page can be found at https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/contributors/

(please correct as appropriate, or let me know of any problems, issues or things needing to be corrected).

3 sections

  • Council
  • Current (Active) members
  • Past contributors

(the past contributors is just taken from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Get%20Involved/WhoWeAre#preview with timezone/language dropped..)

Likely issue - some (very active) folks are listed multiple times.

eg. Walter/WXL is a Council Member, Active/Current member, which i think should remain, but also appears in the Past Contributors.

Possible WXL's (Sorry Walter, I'm using you as an example here) in "Past Contributors" could be culled, but that also causes some extra detail to be lost; thus my decision to leave it in.

FYI: The order to the Past Contributors is TIMEZONE order, which I didn't want to mention, as it makes it more time-consuming to add new entries. Maybe that could be re-sorted, I opted to leave it as is.

I've also seen details relating to a "Kris" (all dead links) that wasn't on the page the past contributors came from; that "Kris" has been left off.

Minor point... in original I state

"Come April 2021, changes will need to be done to these which ..."

I think no changes to wiki should occur until AFTER Lubuntu 18.04 LTS has reached EOL (for us at least), so that should be "After April 2021"

Early on I explored how a change would be made; then tried to look at any consequences..

I've browsed (quickly) about 3/5 of the pages that I believe by impacted by mass rename, and haven't see any negative consequences beyond contributors I think we've covered now, and artwork/graphics that I believe had already been ported to phab (https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/oldart/ though (I've performed no checks all are there though).

I intend to keep exploring between now and end-April 2021, and FYI: I've explore all that show in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/WikiMap that I considered were likely candidates for detail we'd want, but I can give no guarantees I've not missed stuff.

Pages that may need a quick look over (review, some with specific person)

this may get listed in another subtask... I fear it'll get lost as a comment here... (but currently so few)

My plan is to do the following in May 2021 (after Lubuntu 18.04 LTS is EOL for the Lubuntu team)

I believe I've looked through all pages (progressively & multiple times) & already commented what I saw, but there is always a chance I've missed something.

I've not done any of this (wiki renames) before, so I have no idea what problems I'll have, but early in the process I explored what options existed & concluded it is possible, so even though I don't currently recall what I found, my notes will hopefully point the way (or I'll find out how again).

First rename has been done, no LXDE page any longer.. being found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-desktop
Did this early in case it needs time to execute (before big rename).. and also as a test.

I'm wondering if rather than changing all Lubuntu pages to LXDE .. whether I use Lubuntu-LXDE instead.

In searching, there are some Ubuntu/LXDE type pages that i suspect pre-date the official Lubuntu (official-flavor) status.. and that detail maybe harder to find if I rename all Lubuntu to LXDE.. the name difference detail being lost, it would require far more work to look at dates of when pages were created/edited.. (should anyone actually want that historical detail)

If I decide to use Lubuntu-LXDE, then the rename just done can be reversed.
Any comments on which is preferred are most welcome.

This change may catch some flak (problems for users)..

The first rename mentioned last comment results in errors from search engines (including google). The pages are there of course & can be found by searching WITHIN wiki.ubuntu.com, but search engines rely on their historical URLs so send users to 'page doesn't exist; do you want to create it?'

I've added mention of this to the draft Lubuntu 18.04 LTS EOL (still DRAFT; https://notes.lubuntu.me/OdOYuTzbRLqnbLzbUmCkLA) notice sitting on discourse (which is mostly a copy/paste of Dan's official blog notice), but for now I'm delaying posting that announcement.

I think I was hoping for comment on name... but I decided I like the Lubuntu (historical) detail the current naming provided, so I've opted instead to rename

Lubuntu -> LXDE-lubuntu

I ~wanted Lubuntu at the start; but it still allows readers to associate it with Lubuntu (not good thus I rejected)

My hope with LXDE first and "lubuntu" second is

  • no [historical] information (that pages were associated with Lubuntu) is lost
  • easier for Lubuntu to ignore/dismiss (as historical) as LXDE is prominent & not Lubuntu relationship (esp. given all lower case lubuntu is used)

For now "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-desktop" remains; with no wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE page
I'm not sure about renaming LXDE-desktop back to LXDE (and editing it to make it more accurate; ie. downplay the lubuntu relationship) OR creating a new /LXDE page which highlights this change...

"renaming is still occurring" I gather... page has frozen after I clicked "rename" but it's renaming all sub-pages too so this was somewhat expected...

I believe wiki.ubuntu.com is now good

Also help.ubuntu.com (though some pages don't currently reflect my changes due to policy) so I'll have to check this again in a few days.

I haven't touched https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/bugs/ (which still refers to LXDE which showed up in searches looking for pages I missed).

Alas, no guarantees I didn't miss pages.

Some pages redirect (#refresh) with 0 (most), some with 1 & very few 2.


A number of [moved] pages NOW also have stubs that re-direct to manual (installation, contributing..), our wiki (bugs etc), our links page (support) etc. pages found in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/WikiMap, some random searches looking for pages people may select via searches on web pages etc...

Thus my expressed concerns mentioned in the prior two comments are now mitigated :) (or mostly mitigated anyway).
I see no need for blog post

A few more (refresh on help.ubuntu.com) done..

I've done a number of searches & I did find an AdvancedMethods that opens nowhere (my warnings) but I think all looks good.

It'll need time for just done refresh (help.ubuntu.com) to be review/accepted.. but I think it's good.

@KGIII or someone who was an LXDE user... Can you try doing some searches into whatever search engine you like (or a couple) looking for "Lubuntu" pages for various reasons and do you get any significant misses..

ie. a search may come up with the page "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/RemoteDesktop" which will not work, and you'll be asked on the Ubuntu Wiki

"This page does not exist yet. You can create a new empty page, or use one of the page templates."

That page does exist, but due renaming it's now "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/RemoteDesktop" .. but the search engine is pulling up historical data thus the 'miss' (wiki error 'does not exist').

My thinking is if another person (David etc) who was a serious LXDE user, does various searches where they'll expect results.. and tries to find pages.. how does it look?, are there any significant 'misses' that need redirects?

Searches can be newbie, somewhat or rather advanced... I've put stubs up for pages I felt significant (RemoteDesktop is used as example as I didn't see that as one that was worth stub)

(FYI: If you find a help.ubuntu.com page; I'd check the page code to ensure it doesn't have a #refresh as the first line awaiting review... and not active yet)


ie. I'm suggesting a search of maybe "wiki lubuntu" & then open pages that point to wiki.ubuntu.com or help.ubuntu.com ... Do any you think should re-direct not re-direct? (ie. the "pages does not exist" error is the no re-direct and consequence of my page.renames) Use any searches you deem appropriate.. (the key is you'll hopefully use different searches to me..)

I found these:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Lubuntu
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/Alpha2/Lubuntu
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/Beta2/Lubuntu
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes/Lubuntu
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Beta1/Lubuntu

Those aren't pages that'd be redirected. Others, such as this one, appear to be empty or to have been deleted.

I gave it like 30 minutes of looking around it it looks good enough to me. I didn't find any pages except for those. Note that I did limit my time commitment to 30 minutes.

Thanks @KGIII

Artful/zesty/xenial are release names & well before Lubuntu moved to LXQt on *cosmic* or 18.10 so I saw no need to touch them.

The page that appeared most in my testing (random searches online) was https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/AdvancedMethods (page is now https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/AdvancedMethods) but given its contents I saw no need for creating an empty stub that re-directs.

At a rough guess, I'd say there are 40+ pages without stubs, but I concluded they were of no use to a modern Lubuntu user, or worth the effort (yes I know 16.04/xenial users are still out there, but we've attempted to notify them that Lubuntu 16.04 ended support in 2019-April but they remain... I've had two in the last ~week who are relying on ESM updates plus I recall @teward talking to another on IRC also recently; or the 'three' requests are one user asking the same question on 3 sites/occasions)

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/WikiMap shows a lot of pages, (Lubuntu was moved to LXDE-lubuntu); you see many *artful* are at the top, *raring*, *saucy* etc further down the list..

The help.ubuntu.com pages I treated as more valuable & I did re-direct or (rename alone for one; it was really just the detail from man time that's useful for manually specifying time as per LXDE/XFCE but didn't seem to apply to LXQt thus no stub ) & were not ignored like the older releases on wiki.ubuntu.com.

Thank you David for your time & effort; it is greatly appreciated,
(as was some searching by @svinoba / Sai Vinoba)

@guiverc, Two points,

  1. The pages that are redirected to our pages, need not be renamed 'LXDE-Lubuntu' on the Ubuntu wiki; they can just stay 'Lubuntu'. Only those that do not redirect need be renamed.
  2. I think some of the wiki page renamed to 'LXDE-Lubuntu/*' can be redirected to relevant Lubuntu pages. Eg., LXDE-Lubuntu/Applications/Internet can be redirected to https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.1/Internet_Applications.html. If we check those pages, they are just team discussion (+1/-1 comments) about what applications to include. On the other hand, redirection to manual with list of applications and how to use them will be more useful to our users.

Please see below a list for your perusal.

No.Wiki LinksCurrent RedirectRequest RedirectComments
1https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applicationshttps://phab.lubuntu.me/w/bugs/https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/Applications.html
2https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Accessorieshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Accessorieshttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.4/Accessories.html
3https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Browserhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Browserhttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.1/2.1.1/firefox.html
4https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Gameshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Gameshttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.6/Games.htmlDoes not exist. Manual needs to be edited.
5https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Graphicshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Graphicshttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.3/Graphics_Applications.html
6https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/InputPeripheralshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/InputPeripheralshttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.3/2.3.3/Skanlite.html
7https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Internethttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Internethttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.1/Internet_Applications.html
8https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/LXDEComponentshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/LXDEComponentsShould we put link to LXQt Components?
9https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Mailhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Mailhttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.1/2.1.5/trojita.html
10https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/MusicAndAudiohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/MusicAndAudiohttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.5/Sound_and_Video.html
11https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/OfficeAndProductivityhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/OfficeAndProductivityhttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.2/Office_Applications.html
12https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/OutputPeripheralshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/OutputPeripheralshttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.5/2.5.1/K3b.html
13https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/SystemToolshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/SystemToolshttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/3/3.1/System_Tools.html
14https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Videohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Videohttps://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/2/2.5/2.5.3/vlc.html
15https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Artworkhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/ArtworkDoesn’t need redirecting to LXDE. The page does not have any LXDE only info and artwork is a continuation.
16https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Bugs https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/bugs/No need to change original to LXDE-lubuntu
17https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Channels https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/ChannelsNo need to change original to LXDE-lubuntu. No need for deprecation notice as the links are for correct sites (not sure about facebook though).
18https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/CommHeaderCan be deleted. Serves no purpose (as per me :-)
19https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Developers/Bugshttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Developers/Bugshttps://phab.lubuntu.me/w/bugs/

Following pages have too much delay in redirecting. We could easily read the first paragraph. Not sure if it is my internet, but worth checking.

The pages that are redirected to our pages, need not be renamed 'LXDE-Lubuntu' on the Ubuntu wiki; they can just stay 'Lubuntu'. Only those that do not redirect need be renamed.

The initial plan was to remove all reference to 'Lubuntu', and as the point was to distance the modern Lubuntu (using LXQt) from LXDE which is no longer supported. I was going to achieve this by renaming all pages LXDE (skipping the 'lubuntu' all together), but that lost the distinction between really old (pre-Lubuntu LXDE) pages and LXDE in the lubuntu era (as official flavor) thus my final LXDE-lubuntu decision.

I used lower case "lubuntu" intentionally; as they are no longer Lubuntu pages. It's likely most people won't 'get' this, but I hoped it was something else we could mention, if we get questions about supporting historic releases (which occur semi-regularly; 14.04, 16.04 let alone 18.04)

I'll look at the rest of details when I can (THANK YOU for them). Yes the delay on some LXDE-lubuntu pages will likely be very very long (20, 30 secs; i created a criteria that decided what I used) as many were amended long ago (~March 2020) when adding the *deprecated* notices and we still had a year left of LXDE support remaining.

Maybe it's my love of history; but pages like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Developers/Accessibility contain details I find *interesting* and that detail would be missed by quick re-direct.. (okay I used to use knoppix so i'm likely biased)

Anyway I'll look, and thank you again @svinoba / Sai

Comments: (mostly myreasoning)

I agree that mostly there is little LXDE info in the page, however to me there is still details historically wrong detail there (we aren't GTK any more etc). Maybe this is a page I missed and needs migration to our current wiki https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/ (like I did with contributors)... I recall discussion in prior cycles about artwork, but alas forget specifics.
(I recall many pages related to artwork that provided LXDE/Lenny etc images, whilst Lenny is still great, the LXDE logos in older artwork links no longer apply; though didn't find any on the few links I followed from that page).

Migration of the relevant detail maybe best for Artwork page in my opinion (but I wish I remembered more about prior discussions on artwork, or where I recall it from; I didn't find a task for it so maybe it was standup or just IRC discussions I recall? I can't recall)

I chose to re-direct to the bugs page b/c of the nice table of LXDE vs LXQt apps. In a comment earlier in T180 I highlighted we no longer have need for the LXDE apps on that page, so them being removed is probable & thus change makes a load of sense. redirected as requested

Redirected as requested:

Removed

Already re-directed

Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LXDE-lubuntu/Applications/Games ; redirect doesn't exist as @svinoba noted.. nothing done.

Delays all reduced (1/10th of what it was or less; ie. 30 became 3 (or 1))

@KGIII noted "an “official” link (in the sidebar) on Reddit (in r/Lubuntu):"
for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ContactUs
also stating "I suspect it’s in use elsewhere"
so stub created that re-directs to our links page. Thanks @KGIII

@tsimonq2 , do you have access to Reddit? can update/change links maybe there?